Comments on: Selectivity in Free Radical Reactions: Bromination vs. Chlorination https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2013/10/31/selectivity-in-free-radical-reactions-bromine-vs-chlorine/ Wed, 07 Dec 2022 17:57:12 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.6.2 By: George https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2013/10/31/selectivity-in-free-radical-reactions-bromine-vs-chlorine/#comment-577649 Sat, 07 Mar 2020 20:11:02 +0000 https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/?p=7605#comment-577649 Reply to Stefan,

I was wondering the same thing… my guess is this is what James was referring to in the notes of a prior post, “Bond Strength and Radical Stability” where he writes:

“the general trends in this post are valid because we discuss bonds to H, but use caution when comparing any other type of bond other than hydrogen…. Using the bond strengths (BDE’s) of unstrained bonds to hydrogen is a reasonable method for discerning trends in radical stabilities, as discussed in this post. However, BDE’s in and of themselves are not reliable for discerning absolute radical stabilities in cases where the bond may be weakened by strain, repulsion between lone pairs, or other factors. For example the BDE for hydrogen peroxide is 51 kcal/mol, which does NOT imply that the HO• radical is stable, but rather that the O–O bond is destabilized by repulsion between the lone pairs.”

Now when I look at the BDE table in Wade’s Organic Chemistry the only cases I find where tertiary BDE are significantly lower than primary BDE was in breaking of C-H or C-C bonds. There was little BDE difference between tertiary and primary halides (C-F, C-Cl, C-Br, C-I) or C-O bonds.

Since breaking of the C-X halide bond still produces a C* radical (and the halide is now gone), that C* radical ITSELF must be more stable if it is tertiary rather than primary. To me, that suggests the only way BDE can be equal (for tertiary and primary C-X halides) is if the tertiary C-X halide bond is more stable than a primary C-X halide bond. But why would that be?

My guess (only a guess): the CH3- groups are electron donating and the halide is electron withdrawing, so perhaps that stabilizes the C-X halide bond in tertiary carbons (halides like electrons!) and make the halide more loathe to leave as a radical (where it only takes a single electron from the bond) … but I’m not a chem-major… so it would be good if James weighed in…

So what says you James?!?

Thanks!

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By: James Ashenhurst https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2013/10/31/selectivity-in-free-radical-reactions-bromine-vs-chlorine/#comment-556879 Tue, 25 Jun 2019 03:11:55 +0000 https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/?p=7605#comment-556879 In reply to Pratyush Pandey.

Great quote, and very relevant to this blog post. Was this a question?

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By: James Ashenhurst https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2013/10/31/selectivity-in-free-radical-reactions-bromine-vs-chlorine/#comment-553377 Thu, 18 Apr 2019 20:04:17 +0000 https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/?p=7605#comment-553377 In reply to Anubhav.

Iodine is not reactive at all in free-radical halogenation of alkanes. The H-I bond strength is too weak.

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By: Anubhav https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2013/10/31/selectivity-in-free-radical-reactions-bromine-vs-chlorine/#comment-543375 Fri, 16 Nov 2018 15:04:12 +0000 https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/?p=7605#comment-543375 Is iodine more reactive than bromine in monohalogenation?

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By: Pratyush Pandey https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2013/10/31/selectivity-in-free-radical-reactions-bromine-vs-chlorine/#comment-523567 Wed, 22 Nov 2017 14:20:41 +0000 https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/?p=7605#comment-523567 Leroy wade said in a write-up for hammonds Postulate –
“The transition state is always the point of highest energy on the energy diagram.
Its structure resembles either the reactants or the products, whichever ones are
higher in energy. In an endothermic reaction, the products are higher in energy, and the
transition state is product-like. In an exothermic reaction, the reactants are higher in energy, and the transition state is reactant-like. Thus, the Hammond postulate helps us understand why exothermic processes tend to be less selective than similar endothermic processes.”
How is the last line obvious in light of understanding Selectivities ofChlorination vs Bromination in light of Hammonds Postulate?

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By: James https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2013/10/31/selectivity-in-free-radical-reactions-bromine-vs-chlorine/#comment-501045 Thu, 12 Jan 2017 22:25:32 +0000 https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/?p=7605#comment-501045 In reply to Sergej.

March, Advanced Organic Chemistry, 5th ed. is my standard reference.

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By: Sergej https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2013/10/31/selectivity-in-free-radical-reactions-bromine-vs-chlorine/#comment-500896 Wed, 11 Jan 2017 12:34:28 +0000 https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/?p=7605#comment-500896 Hey guys! awesome material you have presented here. Would you mind providing literature sources for the data?

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By: James https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2013/10/31/selectivity-in-free-radical-reactions-bromine-vs-chlorine/#comment-466739 Tue, 05 Jul 2016 21:52:33 +0000 https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/?p=7605#comment-466739 In reply to Idan.

Thanks for the correction on cal vs kcal. Fixed!

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By: James https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2013/10/31/selectivity-in-free-radical-reactions-bromine-vs-chlorine/#comment-466738 Tue, 05 Jul 2016 21:50:10 +0000 https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/?p=7605#comment-466738 In reply to Idan.

The first propagation step is the key step because it results in formation of a radical at the alkane – this is the slow step (breakage of C-H). The second step is fast because a considerably weaker bond is being broken (Cl-Cl) .

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By: Idan https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2013/10/31/selectivity-in-free-radical-reactions-bromine-vs-chlorine/#comment-466721 Tue, 05 Jul 2016 17:11:06 +0000 https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/?p=7605#comment-466721 Hello,
Just pointing out R=1.987 cal/ K mol (not kilo) written at the “Calculating the selectivities based on differences in activation energy” image and the paragraph above it.
Also, could you please explain “[…] in chlorination, the key propagation step is exothermic and in bromination, the key propagation step is endothermic.”
What makes the first propagation step the “key” step? Why not look at the net energy difference for both as you did in the image at the bottom?

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