Comments on: Pi Molecular Orbitals of Butadiene https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2017/02/28/pi-molecular-orbitals-of-butadiene/ Fri, 12 Jan 2024 03:49:42 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.6.2 By: James Ashenhurst https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2017/02/28/pi-molecular-orbitals-of-butadiene/#comment-607770 Fri, 22 Oct 2021 19:12:07 +0000 https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/?p=10565#comment-607770 In reply to Len Esparza.

Shoot. Thanks Len. Fixed!

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By: James Ashenhurst https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2017/02/28/pi-molecular-orbitals-of-butadiene/#comment-599598 Tue, 06 Apr 2021 15:01:41 +0000 https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/?p=10565#comment-599598 In reply to Nancy.

Well, you’d have 7 p orbitals. The lowest energy MO (pi-1) would have all of the lobes facing the same way (zero nodes). The highest energy MO (pi 7) would have all p-orbital lobes alternating (6 nodes).
It will resemble allyl and pentadienyl in that the second-lowest orbital (pi 2) will have a node right on the central carbon. In the pi 4 and pi 6 orbitals there will also be a node on the central carbon, in addition to additional nodes.

The rest of the pi orbitals you can build up based on the principle that the number of nodes increases by 1 for each energy level, and also that the nodes should be placed symmetrically about the pi system.

Once you build up the seven pi orbitals of the heptatrienyl system, then you just need to fill it with orbitals. The cation will have 6 pi electrons, the radical 7 pi electrons, and the anion 8 pi electrons.

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By: Nancy https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2017/02/28/pi-molecular-orbitals-of-butadiene/#comment-599476 Fri, 02 Apr 2021 13:18:48 +0000 https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/?p=10565#comment-599476 Can you please provide the molecular orbitals for heptatrienyl system (for radical, cation, anion) ??

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By: Len Esparza https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2017/02/28/pi-molecular-orbitals-of-butadiene/#comment-598534 Mon, 08 Mar 2021 20:21:50 +0000 https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/?p=10565#comment-598534 Could be wrong but check formal charge on carbon 4 of butadienyl radical anion figure near invitation to draw mo diagram. I figure 2-, and I think to be part of the pi system that carbon should be sp2 hybridized. Should if be CH2-CH-CH-CH2 ?

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By: James Ashenhurst https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2017/02/28/pi-molecular-orbitals-of-butadiene/#comment-572129 Tue, 03 Dec 2019 05:44:43 +0000 https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/?p=10565#comment-572129 In reply to subha.

No it will not be the same for 1,2-butadiene. If you look at the orbitals in 1,2-butadiene they are at right angles to each other, and are not conjugated. They therefore behave much like two separate pi bonds, not a conjugated system. The analysis in this post does not apply to 1,2-butadiene.
See: https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2015/01/13/chiral-allenes-and-chiral-axes/

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By: subha https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2017/02/28/pi-molecular-orbitals-of-butadiene/#comment-571982 Sun, 01 Dec 2019 09:55:56 +0000 https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/?p=10565#comment-571982 Will it be the same for 1,2-butadiene? bcoz in this molecule only 3 C are involved in pi bonding. The last carbon is not involved in pi bonding. So the total no.of pi orbitals will be 3 ryt?

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By: James Ashenhurst https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2017/02/28/pi-molecular-orbitals-of-butadiene/#comment-547727 Fri, 15 Feb 2019 00:29:41 +0000 https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/?p=10565#comment-547727 In reply to Renuka.

Great question. MO calculations, which I’m skipping over here, tell us that any odd-numbered MO in a system of odd-numbered orbitals (e.g. pi3 in the pentadienyl system) will have nodes coinciding with the positions of at least one of the carbons.

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By: James Ashenhurst https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2017/02/28/pi-molecular-orbitals-of-butadiene/#comment-547726 Fri, 15 Feb 2019 00:26:43 +0000 https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/?p=10565#comment-547726 In reply to Fayeshun Brown.

Hi Fayeshun – it does tend to get treated rather quickly, I thought it might be helpful to develop this concept very slowly. If you found it helpful, great!

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By: James Ashenhurst https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2017/02/28/pi-molecular-orbitals-of-butadiene/#comment-547725 Fri, 15 Feb 2019 00:26:07 +0000 https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/?p=10565#comment-547725 In reply to shuaib ahmed.

Thanks Shuaib – glad you found this article helpful.

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By: James Ashenhurst https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2017/02/28/pi-molecular-orbitals-of-butadiene/#comment-547724 Fri, 15 Feb 2019 00:25:48 +0000 https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/?p=10565#comment-547724 In reply to Ravi Divakaran.

Hi Ravi, I’m glad you found this post helpful. Thanks for using the site.

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